Happy Thanksgiving to All!

Programming note: Today is the beginning of the US Thanksgiving Day holiday, a celebration of all things truly American: hours of epic gluttony followed by sitting in front of the television watching people in colorful armored uniforms colliding vigorously with each other, playing a slightly different version of “football” than that practiced in most other countries.

The next day is an even bigger holiday, and it is even more uniquely American.  Called “Black Friday,” people flock to shopping malls at improbably early hours to run up the balance on their credit cards, spending money they don’t actually have to buy the latest soon-to-be-obsolete consumer electronics gadgets and tons of clothes to overload their already bulging closets.

Thanksgiving is a little different for us in Global Capitalism HQ, however: the supermodels are not so big on the gluttony aspect and have no understanding of American football.  But they sure know how to shop for clothes on Black Friday.  So they spend Thursday stretching, practicing their martial arts moves, and checking the traction of their running shoes to make sure they can corner nimbly in the aisles at Barneys and all those trendy little boutiques in the Village to beat out all the other supermodels racing for the best deals.  When it comes to bone-crunching collisions, American football players have nothing on the supermodels going for a half-off Vera Wang number on the “better dresses” floor at Bergdorf’s.  They won’t have me to supervise them; the jet has already jetted off to the ancestral homeland, where I’ll be communing with the waves of coniferous trees at the Capitalist Parents’ waterfront estate and eating healthy.

To each his own.  And however you celebrate this holiday, I hope it’s with good friends and family!


Naturally, the last word on Black Friday comes from none other than Steely Dan…  I dedicate this to all of you who may be working retail tomorrow, long hours at low pay:


Technical note: I’ve been experimenting with the format of the blog a bit.  This may continue for some time to come as time permits.  Each new “theme” package comes with some lame picture for the top, so the default photo up on tonight’s post is not at all meaningful and will be replaced by something artistic when I have a chance.

 

  • tetloj

    Haven’t seen this resource pasted yet (sorry if it is a repeat).
    http://kswlions.wordpress.com/2013/11/17/crocodile-tears/#comments
    This is a KSW group from South Africa countering the back-in-comm blog
    This is fascinating reading in the same way as Black Rob’s facebook posts. Real people saying how really theta the new GAG II is.
    Simply stunning.

    • Bella Legosi

      Wow……..thank you for the linky link……..you are right!

    • Bella Legosi

      “Perhaps the most theta event on the whole track just occurred with the opening of the new Flag Building in Clearwater. There were more ACTUAL Scientologists in the front row of the event than there have been squirrels on the entire track of Scientology.”====taken from your link………Really? omg talk about a double fister of the Kool Aid. I can’t see how people and UNsee pictures or experiences! I mean I understand the mechanics of it, but it truly awes me when I see others this self-blinded!

    • shasha40

      Thanks for the link ! I see I will always be Amazed at Scientologists devotion to lrh and BS conspiracies !

      • Lurkness

        My favorite $cilon comment in this vein:

        “Larry Byrnes
        November 25, 2013 at 11:40 pm
        You are totally welcome! The newly founded “League of Extraordinary Victims” will no doubt dry up and blow away shortly – like the small handful before them. Broadly publishing one’s motivators is the new way to spiritual freedom apparently? Instead of publicly attacking Scientology’s leadership and those that are at least trying to deliver spiritual freedom, perhaps they should demonstrate some compassion for the millions of native Africans who have been enslaved and murdered for so many decades by the likes of the Rothschild/Rockefeller/Kissinger/Soros/EU/UK “Royals” and other elite bankster cult members. And instead of joining this bankster “elite” depopulation crowd and accumulating personal wealth and MEST luxury at the expense of the original native South Africans? There were more REAL Scientologists in the first few rows of the recent Flag opening event than there have been squirrels on Scientology’s whole track. These “extraordinary victims” do not make a blip on anyone’s radar but their own! Racists and Scientology don’t mix well. And apparently those who try to mix them inevitably experience the inevitable motivators that justify their attacks on those whose intentions are to help others and change conditions for the better rather than serve themselves. Onward and Upward!”

        • Bella Legosi

          *shudders*

        • Eclipse-girl

          More cray – cray.

        • Anonymous

          There was an excellent comment made earlier by someone on The Bunker that went along these lines:

          “…The problem with organizations that preach the idea of “there is no such thing as a victim” is that by corollary, the implication is therefore there also is no such thing as a perpetrator…”

          The most evil, vile organizations are those that get their most ardent supporters to trust them completely, thus lowering all their defenses, so that they can then be victimized more easily and completely.

          Just like Scientology does with it’s upside down “ethics’ system, which is applied downwardly to everyone, but never applied to the tyrant of the moment at the top (first Hubbard, now wee Davey.)

          It is always a huge red flag for ANY organization to have a gigantic advantage of asymmetrical information over its members, customers, trading partners, etc. (meaning the organization knows everything about YOU, but reveals next to nothing about itself because of “security” concerns.)

          That particular card had been played by tyrannical organizations for centuries…Scientology just happens to be an organization that does so under the guise of “religion.”

    • Eclipse-girl

      It is so sad that some people can’t see thru the Miasma.
      I was shocked and disheartened to read through that crap.

      I am not pro indie, but at least the SA18 saw through the constant demands for $

    • Lurkness

      Just in case, here is the link, but link below goes through an anon site to mask your IP address, etc. Seems it is a site setup by an individual SA Scilon, but no doubt with OSA encouragement and assistance.

      http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://kswlions.wordpress.com

    • Lurkness

      As noted, at the Getting in Comms Blog, the OSA effort isn’t exactly straight up and vertical. No surprise there! Although there a couple more comments since, here are the CoS/OSA Blog’s stats:

      “splog on November 27, 2013 at 9:50 pm said:

      Let’s look at some numbers, shall we?

      There’s five posts total:

      Nov 9 – 0 comments
      Nov 14 – 1 comment
      Nov 17 – 6 comments
      Nov 20 – 1 comment
      Nov 26 – 1 comment

      There are 4 commenters:

      888 – 3 comments
      Larry Byrnes – 2 comments
      Jake – 1 comment
      Not Impressed/Unimpressed – 9 comments (I reckon this these are the same person, the posts read the same way)

      OSA, I am disappoint. I really thought you had more. It’s sad but I can’t even bring myself to type up a gold old fashioned J&D – it’s like the knights at the bridge scene in Monty Python’s Holy Grail – when the fellow is lying on the ground both arms and legs chopped off, using the sword just isn’t fun anymore. CoS is like that – a washed up hasbeen joke with no arms and no legs (I might want to have a look inside it’s mouth, I think it’s lost its dentures too)”

  • Lurkness

    Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours! Travel safe.

  • Bella Legosi

    Hear! Hear! Thank You to the retail worker or any low wage worker who has to work the day of or after Thanksgiving! Company’s who specialize in creating low wage jobs are infamous for scheduling a person just right, so as to avoid paying any type of Holiday pay! I worked a swing shift at a Century 16 a Thanksgiving Day. It was horrible. I came out of it depressed and more cynical then you sound today, John!

    If it’s any consolation, I have never participated in this Black Friday ritual! lol {Seems awfully Pagan} I don’t believe in credit cards right now, because I know I can’t spend the money that I don’t have! I live with a man who was a part of the Timbers Army even before they were called Timbers! So thankfully NO American football. Had dinner with the family. Sat together and discussed this and that. Nothing spectacular, but very nice at the same time. I can only hope that yours was a good one……..your post would suggest you do not care for the gluttonous, plastic, and falseness this time of year brings. I say there is Hope! Tonight a kitty paid me a visit. I think he is lost. I took him in in the spirit of Thanksgiving! 🙂 There is always that!

    ps
    I still don’t get this Steely Dan thing 😛

    • GlibWog

      Awwwww Bella.. a kitty.. that is wonderful that this little soul visited you.. Good Mama you are.. I feel the same way you do about Black Friday shipping..ugh.. Sounds like you had a great Thanksgiving.. ours was quiet too.. loved it!

      PS Amen sister about the gluttonous, plastic and falseness around the holidays.. MEH

    • ThetaBara

      Tony had a piece on Walmart and black friday over on raw story today. The photos and videos of the scrum are super depressing. It’s amazing there aren’t more injuries. #walmartfight is tredning on twitter. Sad and should be banned.

      • Missionary Kid

        It’s a measure of how desperate people are at the lower end of the financial spectrum, IMO.

        • Kitz

          The thing is though, I would guesstimate that a good majority of those people aren’t at the lower financial end. I was pushed out of the way getting socks (the one and ONLY time I ventured out on a Black Friday) by a woman wearing top dollar clothes and enough gold jewelry that King Midas would have been jealous.

          • ThetaBara

            That doesn’t mean she wasn’t po’ folks.
            You couldn’t pay me to go into a Walmart on any day, or most retail establishments on BF. Yes it’s mostly desperation, but it’s really ugly. Same reason I rarely go to in person protests unless it’s a raid with folks I know and trust.

          • Missionary Kid

            Yeah, there are people from all walks of life that can’t resist a “bargain.” The time and effort and the hysteria that they put out is incredible.

          • Eclipse-girl

            That is just so damn wrong.

        • ThetaBara

          I totally agree. Worse, it is a phenomenon that walmart itself perpetuates by its low wages. DId you know they are the largest private employer in the US? And they offer tips on how to sign up for food stamps and welfare to their purposely undercompensated workforce?! They even had a food drive so their under subsistence level employees wouldn’t have to go hungry on Thanksgiving?! As if trimming a bit off the seven BILLION $ made by all four Waltons last year and treating the employees more fairly wouldn’t go a long way towards fixing this.
          I try to be civilized, but, fuck Walmart. Fuck them right in the nose!

          • Missionary Kid

            The commercials they put on the air to try to save their image piss me off. Notice that one of the people getting benefits and being well paid is a pharmacist. He’s probably paid less than pharmacists elsewhere.

          • Eclipse-girl

            These occurrences make me so damn sad.

            People should be able to stay home with their families and enjoy the holiday. People should be able to get a decent nights sleep. People should be paid a living wage.

            Consumers should realize that these deals may not be even the best, if they are so worried.

            I can’t stand Walmart. I do not shop there. They have hurt the US is my opinion

    • OrangySky

      Black Friday & the ensuing antics make me ashamed to be American!
      Nice to hear from you Bella, happy T-Day and the day after!

  • FLUNK101

    I have something to say. It’s on kind of a serious note, for those who are interested.

    I was raised to be honest. My maternal grandmother lectured me daily, as a young boy, about manners and respect. My parents were intelligent and fair. My cousin was appointed federal district court judge, appointed by the president. Known for being fair and highly respected by lawyers and jurists on both the left and right, he confirmed to me that true honesty and fairness come from inside. It has to be a part of who you are.

    Mr P, I consider you one of my few friends that understand where I’m coming from, and I am crying as I type this.

    It just so happens that I believe in freedom of speech. But, does freedom of speech allow for the occasional fun-ride on the hate train? Or, as OT8 is Gr8 said, “Scientology doesn’t believe in lobotomies, but in your case, we recommend it.”

    I have something to say. I think it needs to be said.

    Please don’t deleted it, Mr P.

    It’s been said you’d have to be a complete idiot to be a Scientologist.

    Speaking colloquially, yeah, you’d have to be an idiot. Once a person knows the whole story, I don’t think they’d want to get involved at all!

    But, that doesn’t mean Bunkerites should abandon basic human decency and treat exes like idiots for saying they got something positive out of Scientology.

    JohnP has acknowledged that some people really did experience a benefit. This assumption (all by itself) goes a long way in explaining the “long con” of Scientology.

    It was never my intention to promote Scientology. And I wish I had a dollar for every time I was called an OSA troll.

    If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn’t lash out or curse those who harassed me. After all, they probably thought they were doing what Tony Ortega wanted them to.

    But, when Bunkerites cross the line into blatantly anti-social behavior, I think someone should say something about that before it gets out of hand.

    When a person speaks from their own personal experience, you have to respect that. That’s what any decent human being would do. Or you become as bad as the evil thing we are here to criticize.

    If a person says they got something out of Catholicism, and you say no they didn’t, that very quickly becomes an ad hom attack. People take it personally.

    That’s just the way it is. Otherwise, there’s just no point.

    When person speaks of their own personal and subjective experiences, you have to approach that intelligently, with compassion, and respect. Especially so if the person is misguided. Otherwise, how would you enter into a meaningful dialogue? By forcing your thoughts on them? By dictating to them? Like they do in Scientology?

    • Eclipse-girl

      We bunkerites do tolerate exes who claim the tech worked for them. Two people immediately came to my mind.

      When they do make statements like how scientology was useful for them, the statements are usually countered with other statements about how therapy is usually useful for some people and the similarities between therapy and auditing.

      You were banned by Tony O because you behaved in a manner that was extremely distasteful to Tony O, and caused another member to leave.

      I read that you apologized for that behavior on the Bunker yesterday. It is up to Tony O and that other member you attacked to forgive you, and no one else.

      Tony has seen a lot of verbal scraps on the Bunker. You are the only person he has banned.

      • FLUNK101

        I put up with a lot of shit in the year and a half I was on that blog
        The ‘member’ I ’caused to leave’ lied. I can prove it. She hated on me for no good reason, and I can reprint the dialogue if you like.
        She went off on me once when all I did was answer someone’s question about Scientology!
        It was the definition of space as a ‘viewpoint of dimension’.
        All I did was explain it, and this ‘member’ accused me of “swooping in with your scio-wisdom” and “Tom Cruise-style arrogance.”
        Then, when I got banned, she talked about how I thought some people had given me a hard time, but she was never one of those people. Yeah, right.
        Eclipse-girl, thank you for responding and I respect your opinion.
        But, when I think of ‘extremely distasteful behavior’, I would think of the way I was treated personally, no matter the way I may have responded at the time to these vicious personal attacks.

        • Guest

          Flunk 101 wrote:

          “The ‘member’ I ’caused to leave’ lied. I can prove it. She hated on me for no good reason, and I can reprint the dialogue if you like. She went off on me once when all I did was answer someone’s question about Scientology!
          It was the definition of space as ‘viewpoint of dimension’.
          All i did was explain it, and this ‘member’ accused me of ‘swooping in with your scio-wisdom’ and ‘Tom Cruise-style arrogance’.
          Then when I got banned, she talked about how I’d complained in the past about people giving me a hard time, but she was never one of those people.
          Yeah, right.”

          Flunk has a history of changing his posts after others have called him out on his vindictive and vulgar comments, and pretends that the responses were “lies” and “unfair attacks”.

          Flunk obviously holds contempt for the person whom he is referencing and is using this forum to further bash her, which I find appalling.

          I don’t find that Flunk feels any remorse for the hideous things he has said in the past, to the person he is disparaging here today nor to another person whom he attacked with vulgar comments on Tony’s blog who was also female.

          It’s pretty clear: He only feels sorry for himself. The problem is, he still feels the need to disparage others, which does not show any contrition of past behavior, nor does it show any refinement of character.

          I do hope he has some lovely aged Gouda to go with his whine.

          • FLUNK101

            Thanks for repeating the same old lies! This only confirms the pathological

          • ZlogonjeAgain

            here is your comment b4 you edit pigfuck.

          • Guest

            He edited his “Prove it, you lyin’ *ss b*tch!” comment, too. If you still have it, please post. 😉 Thank you, Z.A. and Sandie for the backup!

          • ZlogonjeAgain

            cant post it but will verify I saw it. U do know we are dealing with mentally ill serial verbal abuser

          • Sandy

            He seems to be kind of cyclical in his emotions. People have also speculated re: his drugs -not illegal, just up and down variances in pharmaceuticals. .

          • FLUNK101

            Yeah right. Don’t you have better things to do with your time?

          • Sandy

            You know… a person really should grab his most offensive posts and save them. I didn’t even think of it because I thought he was gone.

          • ZlogonjeAgain

            I have many of his worst its good idea he has no morals yet insists he duz

          • FLUNK101

            Yes, I edited my comment. From the time I posted, I continued editing for a few minutes. Yes, I did that.
            What is your problem, my friend?
            If I had to take a wild guess … are you Serbian? I knew a very nice Serbian woman named Vlesna.

          • ZlogonjeAgain

            pig fucker

          • ZlogonjeAgain

            party tonite join us bwa ha ha

          • ZlogonjeAgain

            ha ha no friend here u best hope I dont finish doxin u
            so lets see the proof she lied. prove it dox or shut the fuck up you liar

          • FLUNK101

            So what???

          • Guest

            Flunk edited his reply to my comment. His original response was different. What a shame that he is repeating what he did at Tony’s site here on this forum.

          • FLUNK101

            Prove it, you lyin’ ass bitch!

            I don’t remember if I edited or not. If I did, it was done RIGHT AWAY, to clarify my thoughts.

            You’re trying to make this into something it isn’t. That’s dishonest.

          • Sandy

            I saw you changed your comment too, Flunk. And, it was not done “right away”. And, don’t call me a “lyin’ ass bitch” because I speak the truth.

            You loose your temper and can’t engage in normal conversation after that.

          • FLUNK101

            Yeah, I was thinking to use that … that’s the Fishbone Song The Roots played on the Jimmy Fallon show when Sarah Palin walked on. I changed my mind. Sometimes it takes me a while form my thoughts.
            So what?

          • ZlogonjeAgain

            you did use lying ass bitch you pathological mentally ill pigfuck. only with women you are so brave. want to get my hands on you. you woman hating coward

          • ZlogonjeAgain

            you pig fucker

          • ZlogonjeAgain

            prove she lied you motherfucker. post your proof, now. Now. I read every comment at bunker an she never said one word about yor ban or you. pig fuck. tonite B a fun nite at bunker. btn and mark bunker on the ground, rinder in the air. shd be fun time. you shd join us oh wait bwa ha ha ha!

        • ZlogonjeAgain

          join us for fun nite @ bunker oh wait ha ha ha ha ha roflmfao

        • ZlogonjeAgain

          lets see that proof she lied you pig fucker

        • Eclipse-girl

          Flunk, what proof to you have that the person in question lied?

          One of the most fundamental parts of a discussion is the ability to back up your facts or admit that you are arguing opinions.

          • FLUNK101

            She said something about me that was a LIE. I don’t like lies.
            Yes, I can prove it, but I don’t see you asking anyone for “proof” but me, so fuck off.

            “One of the most fundamental parts of a discussion is …”

            STFU. You don’t know WHAT you’re talking about. GOODBYE

          • Jimmy Threetimes

            In your original post you said that you consider John P. a friend. If that is true, if you have any respect for him, please stop this. This blog is not the place to air your grievances with Tony Ortega or anyone from the Bunker. You know exactly why you were banned from there. Stop trashing John P’s site and move on.

          • FLUNK101

            If people don’t agree with my opinions they may say so.

            But they shouldn’t show up here on JohnP’s blog just to go ad hom.

          • ThetaBara

            You say “I can prove it” but then refuse to. So seems to me it is you who ought to be fucking off. Prove it or STFU.

          • FLUNK101

            I gave the basic quotes from stillgrace from way back when she started her shit. I was just explaining something, and she went nuts. I have more in my mailbox, can’t search my mailbox to well right now because I’m ony phone.
            It really not what I want to dwell on, but look at all the static. It’s just ridiculous. Psychotic!

          • ThetaBara

            IDGAF. Dox or STFU. It’s basic. Why should I have to go digging when you are so bold about saying YOU can PROVE it, then getting defensive when asked to do just that?
            Seems to me like you actually CAN’T prove it!
            So it looks like the “static” is actually coming from you.
            Prove it or STFU. IDC about your phone or whatever other excuse you may have. YOU are the one who is asserting this, and he who asserts must prove. That’s fucking Socrates!
            And, I know, I know, I should not be feeding the troll. Sorry, JPC. :-/

          • FLUNK101

            I am not asserting anything! Grace is the one who lied. And. I. can. prove. it.

          • Kitz

            Then do so. Quit with the name calling and just provide your “evidence.”

          • ThetaBara

            Dox. Or. GTFO.
            You STILL have not done anything but ASSERT.
            I see no proof and I have no time for your BS!

    • chukicita

      If you go into the Bunker to talk about your Scientology ‘wins’ then don’t be surprised if there’s some pushback. Perhaps if you want to pursue a conversation, you set up your own blog for that, and invite people to discuss it with you.

      Please don’t mischaracterize the actions of some bunkeroos – many of whom have been directly hurt by Scientology, Inc’s policy-driven behaviors – as “what Tony O. wants.” He is a journalist, not a cat-herder and I find it very hard to believe that he has any kind of ultimate goal for his readership except to make sense of a secretive organization’s behavior. I have had meaningful conversations with indies on his site before, without incident.

      Also please realize that many of the folks who read your words there have seen for many years very very similar posts from people whose job, they later reveal when they’ve gotten out, was to “Dev-T” or divert or distract from REAL meaningful dialogue. Invalidating experiences works both ways, eh?

      • FLUNK101

        “I find it very hard to believe that he has any kind of ultimate goal for his readership except to make sense … ”

        He’s popular for a certain reason. I don’t think it’s just about ‘making sense’!
        I like to make fun of Scientology too, but with people that understand it a little better.

        • chukicita

          He is a journalist who takes a very unnecessarily complicated organization and helps others make sense of its destructive behavior. It is informative first, entertaining second. It’s easy to make fun of Scientology, but it’s not the prime directive.

          • FLUNK101

            He does a great job of exposing the evil activities and anti-social nature of Scientology. No doubt about it. But still, when I described my experiences in Scientology, there were some parts certain people didn’t want to hear. I’m not defending Scientology, either. I hope you understand. Have a great weekend.

          • chukicita

            Oh. Have I been dismissed? You hope I understand but do not give me enough information to do so. Exactly what experiences in Scientology did who not want to hear?

          • chukicita

            I mean, if you got something good out of Scientology, well, good for you. Be advised I have yet to see anything about anyone’s good experiences in Scientology that are unique to that belief system. I get comparable ‘wins’ from going bowling with friends and it’s considerably cheaper.

          • FLUNK101

            A good therapist is a good listener. A good therapist knows what questions to ask. A good therapist helps you sort through your feelings and behavior patterns, and helps you understand what you need to work on.
            For me, auditing was not like that. When I think of the best auditing experiences I had, they were the ones that elevated my mood. I felt happy, and that was supposed to be “proof” that I should spend more money on Scientology! That’s a con.

          • ZlogonjeAgain

            that’s a con and U R a pig fucking pathological liar mentally ill asshole

          • ze moo

            ‘Auditing’ is part of the sales experience and its ‘happy time’ use are what hooks the mark. Good auditors can sell on the ‘tech’ or slap you down and get you to conform to the corporate plan. But it is just salesmanship, auditors are not psychologists.

          • FLUNK101

            Makes sense. I was never on staff. When I bought some auditing. It took me a long time to pay for it. I’d visit the pretty reg at CC, make my payment, and hang out for an hour. I was probably keeping them from doing something else or some dirty MEST work … but they were always very friendly and they never pressured me.
            After the auditing, I was NOT getting back on that treadmill. I told her I was going home to enjoy my win. I refused to sign up for my next step before leaving the building, like you were supposed to.
            I just tried to explain to her how I felt, and after about 20 minutes trying to convince her, she broke down in tears.
            I went home. No ethics. But it left a bad taste in my mouth. I ended up doing more, but subconsciously, I think I was guarding myself. I ended up drifting away.

          • Eclipse-girl

            You only had one auditing session?

          • FLUNK101

            Thank you for asking. I don’t want to dredge up the past too much. I think it’s possible that Tony’s blog is not as bad as it used to be. There are some nice people there now.
            Some people think scientlogy is all bad in a monolithic kind of way. They just don’t want to hear thst someone got something hood out if it, no matter what.
            But, when a person has one little good experience in Scientology, they exploit that. They promise you the next level is even better, even if it isn’t. It’s a con every step of the way, but these little successes do happen once in a while. JohnP was one if the first Bunkerites to acknowledge that. He’s a compassionate man.

          • ZlogonjeAgain

            you don’t like to dredge up past? don’t blame you with jools like this on yor cv

          • ZlogonjeAgain

            or how about dis one? I can do dis all nite but I will miss party at bunker pls join us ha ha ha

          • Sandy

            Oh man. There are more than I even imagined. Thank you for collecting them.

          • ZlogonjeAgain

            one more for the road

          • FLUNK101

            That was a long time ago. I was responding to people who not only started to give me a hard time, they wouldn’t stop.

          • GlibWog

            FLUNK.. I am saying this with an open heart. I will not be posting again. I think John will be so distressed to see the Web site that he has worked so hard on to be used in this manner.

            I am a trained counselor. I am suspecting that you stopped taking your meds. I would suggest that you get off the computer immediately and go to bed.

            You need professional help and stability. Please seek it.. and subscribe to the method that had worked for you before.

            It is my professional opinion only..

            that you take medication that improves your mental health status and once feeling stable you go off them because of the side effects. You need to take your medication as prescribed so that you can live on a day to day basis to succeed in daily living and communicating effectively.

            This is not open for discussion. I am leaving now. I am saddened by the name calling of Eclipse especially because she only had your best interest at heart. Her only mistake is not recognizing you can not process information in your current state of mind.

            Thank you for taking the time to read this. Please seek professional help ASAP.

          • DeElizabethan

            Exactly!

          • FLUNK101

            I posted here today, and you Bunkerites made a mess of it. I am HORRIFIED. What started with a post turned into a massacre.
            Are you so biased you can’t see that?
            You guys should be frkin’ ashamed of yourselves. If you don’t like me, you should just leave me alone. I am not here to argue.
            I don’t know what kind of counselor you are.
            Eclipse-girl showed very little comprehension of what I had to say, but she still have me a hard time. She treated me like criminal. She may not treat you that way, but I hope you’re mature enough to realize she was out of line.
            Please knock it of with the bullshit accusations of mental illness. Why do you Bunkerites think you’re always right and everyone else is crazy? And why can’t Bunkerites ever apologize?

          • sugarplumfairy

            Omg! I missed that one! I thought the best nickname he ever gave me was SugarplumShithead, which I freaking ADORED!

          • tetloj

            Thank you for bringing substantial nourishment to this shindig. Seriously – love your work.

          • Sandy

            wow

          • ZlogonjeAgain

            I have more

          • PoisonIvyHerself

            Did you ever save any of the ones against me back in the day? It was on VV, not the Bunker, if I remember correctly.
            This kind of verbal abuse against women is vile and there is no excuse for it. None.

          • FLUNK101

            Oh please. Just think back to your feminist studies and all the vile things they say about men!

            Thanks for ganging up, PI. I knew I could count on you.

            Actually, now that I think of it, I said some very nice things about you …

            Growing up, I really hated it when feminists portrayed men as the enemy of women. Men in my family did NOT disrespect women!
            All societies, even matriarchal societies, have always had a division of labor between men and women. Is that discimination or a survivall strategy? I think it’s mostly survival … but there’s always room for improvement!
            And what about men of science? They made the world a happier, healthier and wealthier place for people all over the world.

            I remember once talking about how science and technology had changed the way we lived. I said most of women’s new freedoms wouldn’t exist otherwise.

            WhereIsShe tore into me, calling me ignorant and misinformed. You took her side. I was hurt. I thought it was incredibly insensitive.

            But I forgave you.

            We all have our sensitivities, PI. I put mine aside because I thought you were a good person and I liked what you contributed to the blog.

            I apologize for any untoward remarks I may have made to you.

          • chukicita

            Everyone has “successes” but there’s not really a definite causal link to Scientology.
            Elsewhere you claim to have answered all my questions. You didn’t, but I am no longer interested.

            Your posts seem to be a great example of Dev-T.

          • FLUNK101

            Are you for real? I tried to answer your questions the best I could!
            Yes, there is a causal link between “successes” that came from doing Scientology.
            If you don’t agree that’s possible, then that is your opinion.
            Since you think it was dev-t, the next time you ask me a question, I won ‘t waste your time by answering it!

          • Eclipse-girl

            When Kevin Tighe described his positive wins, I warned him that the Bunker would jump on it. It did. Kevin replied he was tired of watching what he had to say. I replied “Fair Enough.”

            Kevin Tighe is respectful and took the criticism he was given with out the conversation degenerating into name calling.

          • ThetaBara

            Well then, perhaps it would behoove you to consider your venue when making these statements. You KNOW it isn’t going to fly among this crowd, so then why not find a more welcoming space for what you want to express?

      • PoisonIvyHerself

        Chukita – Flunk has been down this road so many times in the past it’s hard to count, since I first started lurking at VV in spring of 2012. For some reason he is prickly on the subject of his Scientology “wins.” So many never-ins and exes on Tony’s blog have actually AGREED with him that yes, of course people have wins in early Scientology! But he seems to have a need to use the excuse of “You are invalidating/ not respecting my wins!” as a reason to play the ‘persecution’ card. Hence, no matter what we say or how we try and calm him down or clarify the apparently ‘offending’ statements (which often seems to be picked at random in an attempt to engage a specific commenter) – in Flunk’s eyes, we are all bigots and liars and – well, worse, sometimes if we happen to be women who happen to stumble into his crosshairs.

        Another trait he has is to try and pick someone out and make him/her a “good guy” – as he does here with John P. “JohnP, you are the only one who understands me.” In this way he attempts to divide the group against itself and gather an ally, and guilt someone into giving him another chance. Standard abuser behavior.

        Flunk, I speak from my own experience because you’ve targeted me in the past. The first time, it actually got under my skin for an hour or so, because I have that genetically female trait of not wanting to hurt someone – even inadvertently – and wanting to set everything right. I tried with you – as has Eclipse Girl, Bury the Nuts, Midwest Mom back in the day and Still Grace, who you definitely deserved to be banned for cruelly abusing. Now that we’re all on to you, you cannot hurt us. So don’t even try. I’m telling you right now – I will not respond to anything that even smells of abuse. Most people on this blog won’t respond to you at all.

        However, I do belive this – you are quite intelligent and you have a sensitive heart and a compassionate side. And I’m certain you had many helpful wins in Scientology. And I know you’re not a Scientology troll. You are worth something and have something to offer the world. But you need help. Real help. Please get some. For yourself, not for anyone else. Because I have a feeling you are about to get yourself banned from this blog as well.

        And you did it in record time. With all this blog banning, you have to ask yourself in a lucid moment, “What is the common denominator here?” Hint: It is your behavior. Yours alone.
        And guess what? Your disease is such that unless you do get help, you’ll never, ever be able to admit that the above behavior is correct.

        Go in peace, Flunk. But stop trying to hurt people in vile, abusive ways. And stop lying to yourself about it. You’re only lying to yourself because everybody else here sees right through you. You deserve our prayers, but not our indulgence.

        • chukicita

          Thanks for the background, and you nailed it with your last sentence.

        • FLUNK101

          There are so many logical fallacies in what you just said I don’t know where to start.
          Sorry PI, but you have your version of events.
          We all create the world around us in our minds. We all put the world together in our minds a little bit differently.
          I never wanted to fight. But if you read what I posted today, I think I hit the nail on the head.
          When a person speaks of their own experiences and you tell them that’s bullshit, you’ve got problems. You probably wouldn’t do it in any other forum. Even if someone sounded a bit out of touch, you would probably approach that with caution and respect.
          People on this blog get their blood boiling over the injustices of Scientology. They don’t want to hear certain things that to them sound like there’s something good about it, even if it’s part of the experience. They might even assume you’re a troll, because that’s a real possibility.
          Also, when I recall that period of my life, I am recalling my youth. I was living my artistic lifestyle, and I was having fun. People might not understand that and misinterpret it.
          I am an honest person. I don’t have a lot of patience with people telling me I’m full of shit, especially when I’m being absolutely honest.
          In recapitulation, I’d like to say this: go easy on 1st person narratives. It could be a troll, but try to be polite until you make that determination.

        • Eclipse-girl

          Incredible statement. TY for the history.

        • Guest

          Amen, sistah!

    • Mooser

      “When a person speaks of their own personal and subjective experiences,
      you have to approach that intelligently, with compassion, and respect.”

      Hey, buddy, you are on the right track! Taking advantage of that social convention is how L Ron made millions!
      As a matter of fact, friend, you’ve got it exactly backwards. When you say some idiotic, or untrue, or patently manipulative, people will call you on it. You want “respect” for your words? Say some thing that makes sense.
      It’s like that photographic portrait I paid so much money for. I keep on telling my wife: “That photograph doesn’t do me justice!” And she, of course replies :’ It’s mercy you want, not justice!” Get a clue, Flunky.

      • FLUNK101

        ” When you say some idiotic, or untrue, or patently manipulative, people will call you on it.”

        OK. I’m calling you on it.

        “You want “respect” for your words? Say some thing that makes sense.”

        Good advice. You’ve got you’re work cut out for you.

        “Taking advantage of that social convention is how L Ron made millions”

        By treating people with intelligence, compassion and respect? Are you an OSA troll?

        “Hey, buddy, you are on the right track!”

        I wish I could say the same about you.

        “Get a clue, Flunky”

        Tony has a blog for you. Did you know it’s impossible to log on without being an asshole?

        • IASREG

          “Taking advantage of that social convention is how L Ron made millions” By treating people with intelligence, compassion and respect? No. There is an error in reading comprehension here. It is not Hubbard treating people with intelligence, compassion and intellect but Hubbard taking advantage of other people treating his nonsense with intelligence, compassion, and respect.

          • FLUNK101

            “… Hubbard taking advantage of other people treating his nonsense with intelligence, compassion, and respect.”

            Yes, IASREG, that’s absolutely true as far as I’m concerned.

          • Eclipse-girl

            If that is true as far as your are concerned, then you are denying the actual history of what happened.

            L Ron was married three times. The second marriage was bigamous to Sarah. Eventually Ron got a divorce from Polly.
            The daughter from his second marriage was a red head, and there are strong indications that she was Ron’s daughter, no matter what he denied.
            He did steal this daughter, Alexis, from her mother (Sarah) and kept for a period of I think 2 months.

            That is not treating people with intelligence, compassion or respect.

            His aunt had to call Ron and tell him his mother was dying. He tried to get out of seeing his dying mother, but his aunt layed into him. When she died, he paid for her funeral, but he did not stay for the service.

            I am not sure I can think of anyone in his life that he treated with intelligent, compassion or respect.

            Ron was never crippled or blinded in WW II. He did not have 21 or 27 service medal and palms. He never had to cure himself by using Dianetics, HE LIED to people.

            I encourage you to read either The Bare Faced Messiah by Russell Miller, or A Piece of Blue Sky by John Atack to read documented biographies of the man.

          • FLUNK101

            Sorry Eclipse-girl, but can you even read???? Are you drunk?
            That’s what I’ve been saying all along.
            It started with me saying the way to approach a person telling their personal story is with intelligence, compassion and respect.
            MOOSER said that was how Hubbard made millions!
            I made a joke about it … “By treating people with intelligence, compassion and respect?”

          • Eclipse-girl

            Hubbard did make millions. In the readings that I have suggested you read, it is documented that Hubbard’s received luggage filled with cash whenever he wanted it. He invested in gems stones, and gold. He also bough exotic animals for his ranch.

          • FromPolandWithLove

            Hi Eclipse Girl 🙂 I’m trying to catch up with that all mess with Flunk. I remember when he was banned from The Bunker. Well it looks for me that Flunk is rather FLAPunk. Sad mess

          • Eclipse-girl

            A ver sad mess. One of his own making. He pulled it in.

    • ze moo

      I look at most clam ‘courses’ as something you could have learned in simple courses on philosophy, logic and at a Dale Carnegie class, with a visit to a ‘life coach’ thrown in. It Lroons wit and wisdom motivated you to look beyond his drivel, then good for you. That is something it takes 2nd or 3rd generation clams a long time to attempt. It is just too difficult to give Lron any respect, he stole, borrowed or plagiarized so much that he put his name to.

      • FLUNK101

        A lot of it is very abstract, and I think people find ways of integrating it into their intellect. It’s a sneaky way of co-opting a person’s mind.

      • FLUNK101

        Oh, man. I love your av. It always gives me a chuckle. My favorite. ze moo, the cow with the ten gallon tin foil hat!

    • Eivol Ekdal

      “Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.”
      ― Thomas Jefferson

      • FLUNK101

        Are my propositions unintelligible?

        • Eivol Ekdal

          Yes

    • media_lush

      I have this vision of Flunk as the Dennis Hopper character in Blue Velvet but rather than inhaling from the mystery gas cylinder when he gets excited I imagine his is connected to his anus…. you know… let the fart gasses build up a bit and take a deep sniff before writing a comment type thing.

      • FLUNK101

        Thx ML!

      • FLUNK101

        Ahhh …

      • sugarplumfairy

        You have a unique and terrifying mind..

  • Eclipse-girl

    Thank you for your care for those low wage retail workers.
    I had legislating common sense.
    But I feel it is important for people to be able to enjoy a decent meal with loved ones, and a decent night’s sleep.
    I think retail stores should not open until 8:00 am on Friday

    • FLUNK101

      I saw what you posted about me on the bunker.
      You are mistaken.
      Yes, I posted here today. Anyone can go down and read my post.
      No, I am not blaming my behavior on the bunker. That’s ludicrous. That was not the point of what I had to say in my post!
      It’s really sad what people said about me over there!

      • Espiando

        You calling E a creep is irony of such a scale that Alanis Morissette’s head just exploded. It’s not sad what people said about you over at the Bunker, because you deserve all of it and more for your antics. And as for your drunken public pity parties, I think it’s safe to say that everyone there and here is sick of them. You don’t deserve sympathy. You don’t deserve pity. You don’t deserve any human emotion whatsoever except for opprobrium and abuse. If you don’t want those, then I suggest you leave, because there are people here who are happy to provide those.

        • FLUNK101

          I posted here today because I had something to say. If you disagree, you are free to say so.
          No, this is not a pity party, I am not drunk, and I do not deserve to be abused by you or anyone else.

          • Espiando

            Everyone deserves to be abused by me. Some consider it an honor. And, personally, I don’t care if I abuse you or not. The word “sociopath” is thrown around the Anti blogs a lot when most people don’t know its true meaning or have even met one. I am one. I have no concern for your feelings whatsoever.

            Get this: just because you have something to say doesn’t mean you have the right to say it, especially to an audience that has grown tired of you and your antics. Posting your little “oh poor me” fauxpology over at Tony’s (I saw it before it was deleted and decided not to honor you with a response) just upped the ante. And then coming over here because this place isn’t pre-approved posting and you haven’t been banned yet, just so you could extend the bullshit…that’s tasteless. Why can’t you just shut up and vanish like the residue of flatulence that you are? People simply don’t want you around. Your act has grown stale. You have zero merit and contribute less than that. You don’t have anything to say that we want to hear. Not even the most gracious people at the Bunker will accept an apology from you at this point, even if it is sincere (which, with you, it never is).

            You are not wanted. Leave. Forever.

          • ThetaBara

            I agree with all of this except I do not think you really are a sociopath, Espi. I could be wrong, but I think you care, underneath it all. You scare because you care. It’s ok, you don;t have to admit it. But I just don’t buy it. 🙂

        • FLUNK101

          I think it was GlibWog who recently said, “Espiando’s an asshole, but he’s our asshole!”
          Keep up the good work, Espi.

          • Espiando

            Glibby also knows that I regard being called an asshole as a compliment. You have no right to use it in conjunction with me.

  • Imelda Marcos

    Thank you, you little fellow Steely Dan fan, you.

  • Eclipse-girl

    Dear JohnP,

    I am partially responsible for some of what occurred today.

    I knew that Flunk101 had appeared on the Bunker, yesterday.
    That comment was deleted or removed. I assumed Tony O removed it due to his ban on Flunk.

    I tipped the Bunker off this morning after I read Flunk’s post.

    Mea Culpa

    • Guest

      You are not in any way even minutely responsible for Flunk’s behavior. Please know that, E.C. Flunk is responsible for his own actions and yet he never sees this – his diatribe about honesty is like Bill Clinton claiming to be chaste. (No offense to Bill Clinton.)

      You have not done anything wrong.

      • Eclipse-girl

        I am the youngest of a dysfunctional family. If apologies made it easier, I made them

        I know intellectually that am not in control of other people’s behaviors.

        I did direct people here.

        I am glad I did. I wasn’t familiar with Flunk. I was aware of had happened.

        The discussion has given me more insight.

        • Sandy

          I trust Mr. JPC will have a conversation with Flunk on his ridiculous behavior on this site. Do not for one minute wonder if anyone but Flunk has brought this on himself. He always does bring these things on himself.

          • Eclipse-girl

            TY

          • FLUNK101

            WHAT?

            JohnP, do you see what’s going in here?

          • Eclipse-girl

            You claimed that another person lied.

            Do you have any evidence of that?

            Be reminded that there is evidence of you changing the intent of posts

          • FLUNK101

            No there isn’t.

          • Eclipse-girl

            So you admit that you not telling the truth?

          • FLUNK101

            I am admitting that I don’t think you’re very bright. You don’t understand where I’m coming from. I was having a serious discussion, and then you Bunkerites showed up to give me a hard time. That’s calling trolling, you troll.
            Do you even know what I was talking about when I started this thread? No. So STFU. Go back to Tony’s and leave me alone.

          • FLUNK101

            You are ridiculous.

        • FLUNK101

          “The discussion has given me more insight.”

          Are you nuts?

          • Eclipse-girl

            No.
            I realize that ZA used ad hominem attacks
            Chukicita, Sandy and Ze Moo and others tried to engage you. When you were asked to provide evidence, you did not.

          • FLUNK101

            I believe answered all of Chukucita questions, and I believe I had a nice exchange with ze moo.
            Sandy is just stirring up trouble.
            You and I are not on the same page for some reason. Why did you think I had only ONE (?) auditing session? I don’t get it.
            I don’t mind discussing ideas, but this is a hot mess.
            I said what I felt I had to say to guest. Do you really want me reprint dialogue from the past? Is it so hard to understand what ‘s goin’ on?

          • Eclipse-girl

            Trying to track all the various conversations is confusing.

            I am bringing this back the the original conversation you and I were having

            You claimed another person lied about you. I asked if you had any evidence of that. In the response of about 5 mins earlier you said you do not have any evidence.
            That particular person, I don’t know well. But whenever I have read there responses that person does not appear to lie or cast aspersions against others.

            There is absolutely no evidence that evidence Hubbard ever treated anyone with “intelligence, compassion and respect.”
            You claimed you meant that as retort as comedy or satire.
            As I read the conversation, I did sense the satire.
            I recommended that you use { } to denote satire.

      • FLUNK101

        Is their any end to your diatribe?

    • PoisonIvyHerself

      People are responsible for their own behavior. You don’t need to blame yourself.

    • FLUNK101

      “I tipped the Bunker off this morning after I read Flunk’s post.”

      You misrepresented what I said, Eclipse-girl. What kind of charade is this?

    • ThetaBara

      Don’t beat yourself up. Many of us read this on the daily.

  • wondering

    I think people are visiting here and causing a fuss because it is a long weekend and they hope to get away with their shit disturbing while the moderator is otherwise occupied.

    Please disengage feeding trolls.

    PS – this my 1st comment as a long-time lurker. But I do so dislike incivility.

    • Sandy

      Dear wondering. This poster is a carry-forward from Tony Ortegas’ wonderful blog. Poster’s are trying to explain the facts to him, because these are kind people. It is obviously not working.

      I hope that after this long weekend, Mr. Capitalist explains to him the reason to this blog, and his intent. Perhaps, this unfortunate individual will go away and find a forum that better suits his personality.

      Please, wondering, do not give up on this forum because of this one unfortunate poster.

      • FLUNK101

        Why don’t you just mind your own business?

        • Eclipse-girl

          How does Sandy’s post elicit a response from you?

        • Kitz

          Nice editing again. I’m sure someone has a screen grab of the original. Bringing issues from other fora is in poor taste at least, and immature at most.

          By resorting to name calling as you have, you prove your immaturity.

      • FLUNK101

        “Poster’s are trying to explain the facts to him, because these are kind people”

        Are you kind?

    • Eclipse-girl

      I know we shouldn’t feed.

      A few individuals have discussions with the trolls. It isa two way street. we learn more about the individual trolls, and perhaps we can cause them to question, cause them to doubt, if they are handled with care.

      I am not always gentle. It depends on my mood.

      Totally agree with you about uncivil behavior and ad hominem attacks.

      OH, and Welcome.

      • aegerprimo

        I like the way you think Eclipse Girl.

      • FLUNK101

        I hope you’re not referring to me as a troll.

        • Eclipse-girl

          In today’s discussion, I have not seen you add any information to the discussion.
          I have seen you make claims for which provide no evidence.

          • FLUNK101

            Go back to my first post and read it. That’s what we’re supposed to be talking about, Troll-girl.
            How can you ask for evidence? Evidence of what, specifically? That someone lied? That’s obvious to anyone who’s been paying attention.
            If someone says something nasty about me, you don’t question it. But if I say they lied, you want proof. GFY. That’s bias. Please go away.

    • tetloj

      Yep – back to the bunker y’all. So much more fun!

  • Sandy

    Flunk has found another audience. Do not feed his ego. He is just doing this for attention,

    • FLUNK101

      You are sick. Go away. This is a blog for intelligent discussion, not character assassination.

      • Eclipse-girl

        You have yet to provide the evidence that was asked for.

        You have yet to respond about the question of Ron treating others with intelligence, compassion and respect that I asked you.

      • Espiando

        You would have to have a character to assassinate in the first place.

        • KJP in Portland

          2 upvotes for Espi. ^^

  • KJP in Portland

    Flunk101…play it right over here. Dont endlessly drone on in circles. Contribute something meaningful to the group discussion. I’d hate to see John P. pull the plug on you over here too.

    • FLUNK101

      Did you read my first post? I already have contributed something meaningful.
      2upvotes for Espi? For insulting me? Who do you people think you are? You’re sick. And yes, I hope JohnP has something to say about this hate-fest.

      • Espiando

        If you know me, you know that wasn’t much of an insult from me. I was being merciful for a change. I can easily escalate to abuse if you want me to.

        • KJP in Portland

          =Ziontologist. Right Espi?

          • Espiando

            Absolutely right, and therefore deserving. I pissed off Grace once, but I never made her leave the Bunker. And we all know that we don’t have Midwest Mom around because of this armpit bacterium. If he comes back, then it’s Green Light all the way.

          • KJP in Portland

            I thought it was him and we’re lucky Grace came on back. I’ve been wondering about Midwest Mom. No shit there too?

            FLUNK101, go the fuck away before someone flies out to you and abuses you.

          • FLUNK101

            Now you’re threatening me.

          • ThetaBara

            He means verbally. Log off and sober up.

          • FLUNK101

            Midwest Mom? I left off on good terms with her. We had a couple of good conversations, then I lost track of her. I don’t know why she left.
            I don’t have a very good opinion of stillgrace. She was critical of me, just for talking about my experiences in Scientology, or even just for explaining something. There were a few times I tried to talk sense to her, but to no avail. Oh well.

      • Thanks for making me laugh out loud. I hope JohnP throws your sorry ass out.

        • FLUNK101

          “The weirder the hat, the balder the guy.” – Robin Quivers

          • Guest

            “When others kid me about being bald, I simply tell them that the way I figure it, the good Lord only gave men so many hormones, and if others want to waste theirs on growing hair, that’s up to them.”

            John Glenn

  • tetloj

    Look what happens when you go away. Us kids done gone trashed the place.

    Of course the real news of the moment is another ‘fail’ (thanks BTN) moment in history for the IAS with the few remaining faithful and cashed-up public treated to a cognitive dissonance shaker of great proportion.

    Flying Apostates / Flying Squirrels taking Scientology criticism into the skies.

    Nearly into the last month of 2013; a devastating year for Scientology. And 2013 has seen the planting of seeds that will grown and keep on giving (Leah R, the actions taken by Garcia and Rathbun).

    Tony has turned Scientology watching into a spectator sport / street party / neighbourhood watch.

    • Qbird

      oh you made me laugh here sweetie!!!

  • PoisonIvyHerself

    Gee JohnP, I guess being a Blog Proprieter is more of a headache than one would ever have imagined!

    Hope you and the Supermodel had a wonderful T-Giving and can’t wait for you to come back home to us!

    (If you need any help sweeping up the trash after this out-of-hand party, give a holler ) xo

  • Kitz

    Hope that you and Supermodel #1 had a wonderful turkey day. May the sounds of the conifers bring you peace, even though it’s been cold as hell here!!!

  • ThetaBara

    PIX or IT DIDN’T HAPPEN:
    https://whyweprotest.net/community/threads/ias-2013-pictures.115385/
    (Courtesy BlackRob & WWP.)

    • DeElizabethan

      Thanks a bunch for the thread. Now I know we missed the horse today.

    • It’s the black and white knight on the black and white horse!

      That was close – almost didn’t put the coffee down in time!

    • Miss Tia

      thanks! i was looking for these pix in the ‘i have a thetan in my mirror’ post!!

  • I hope everyone got what they wanted if they went to the sales and took the day off if they didn’t

    Oh, and stop feeding the trolls, eh? Something can be done about it, and not feeding the troll is a useful exercise is doing more with less

    Oh, and don’t forget that entire threads can be collapsed by clicking the ‘-‘ that appears as you hover the mouse over it (to the right, at the first comment in a thread)

  • SciWatcher

    Sigh…

  • Cece

    I’m trying to get through these comments starting when there were 128 or something. It APPEARS that there is bullying going on.
    I’m not interested in being a part of it. So what IF Flunk is a Troll. So what? We are all in this planet together. I didn’t find anything he said that could not have been ignored.
    There is not any reason in the world to bring him to tears. Sheeeesh. Like a bunch of grade school kids.

    • Eivol Ekdal

      I am always up for a logical argument, but I think that would be wasted effort in this case.
      His main point seems to be…”When a person speaks from their own personal experience, you have to respect that.”
      I do, but I also reserve the right to tell them that their actions were ill advised.
      also..”If a person says they got something out of Catholicism, and you say no they didn’t, that very quickly becomes an ad hom attack.”
      ….No!!! Flunk perceives this as Ad Hominem, and that is his main problem. I would see it as an argument against Catholicism and that is all. Even Gier Isene says that he got a lot of good from the communication courses. I respect Gier, but I still cringe because the communication courses and all the intro stuff is the thin end of wedge of Scientology. That wedge which eventually gets hammered home dividing people from their Family, Friends, Freedom, Finances and Finally Sanity!

      • Cece

        Yes, I can certainly see where he is bringing this on himself. How ’bout simply a down vote. I wanted to read comments about Johns post and can’t find any 🙁

        • Eivol Ekdal

          I Love Steely Dan and JP, Happy Thanksgiving All!!!

        • Eclipse-girl

          The comments are there. Try reading the oldest.

        • ThetaBara

          Try sorting by “Best.” “Flunk” is a known troll.

          • Cece

            Sorry I’m new at this thanks for the tip – that worked great 🙂

          • Eclipse-girl

            No worries. I really appreciate Guest’s comment. I knew some but not all. Knowing the history is important.

      • FLUNK101

        Getting something out of the communication course does not equal a wedge between you and your family.

        It’s not all one thing. Life is complex and multi-faceted.

        Experience is complex, involving everyday life as well as our inner lives.

        A person may have loved something about the communication course. Further on down the line, they feel betrayed by Scientology. They thought it was good, so how come it’s so bad?

        People make funny generalizations sometimes. Imagine if you once had dinner in a fantastic restaurant. Only it was during a bad marriage. As bad as that marriage may have been, you still might have fond memories of that meal!

        Yes, I confused attacking a belief system with attacking the person. I think what I actually said was ‘it quickly becomes’ an ad hom attack. I think it ‘becomes’ an ad hominem attack because of the nature of belief and perception of self.

        Sometimes people think that everything in their life is a conscious decision.

        From what I’ve read (and believe), the unconscious mind interacts with the conscious mind, always.

        It just goes to show that Hubbard’s idea of ‘eradicating’ the ‘reactive mind’ is nonsense. Scientologist characterize the unconscious as the reactive mind. The idea of eliminating that is not a complete picture of who we really are.

        If it wasn’t for the unconscious, we wouldn’t have ‘thoughts’, that pop into our minds, we wouldn’t have dreams, and there would be no such thing as jokes … hey, that’s just like Scientology!

    • Guest

      Cece, your statement “I didn’t see anything he said that could not have been ignored.” deserves an explanation, since you probably don’t realize why Flunk’s initial comments weren’t ignored.

      Flunk began commenting on Tony Ortega’s Runnin’ Scared blog when Tony was still at The Village Voice. He used different usernames to make it seem like he was more than one person and would verbally attack others when he was angry. (Poison Ivy mentioned elsewhere on this thread how she was one of those people and she is telling the truth – it was a vicious verbal attack.) He continued this when Tony began his Underground Bunker Blog.

      He continued to lash out at people, particularly female commenters. Repetitive targets were Chocolate Velvet, Sugarplumb Fairy and StillGrace. He would often post hideous attacks, then after others would respond to him about how inappropriate and vicious the comments were, he would erase his offensive comments and change them to make it look like he had never said those things, then would call the others liars and accusing them of attacking him, claiming he was a victim of bullies. He would not take responsibility for being the offender – he always claimed being the victim, and it happened over and over again.

      I remember one post which Tony deleted, which Flunk had made under a different username, to Chocolate Velvet which was extremely offensive in regard to her and to her race (she is African American). The final straw was when Flunk (as “Ziontologist”) made very chilling and disturbing remarks to StillGrace, which accused her of being the catalyst for her family member to commit suicide. This caused a great deal of pain for Grace, which we can all understand and empathize. Flunk/Ziontologist was banned from Tony’s blog for his cruel post, and rightly so.

      His latest comments about being “persecuted” and claiming to be “honest” and “well mannered”, yet not showing any remorse or even an apology for his cruel comment to Grace, proved that he was still playing the victim and not taking responsibility for his own actions, When he further criticized Grace, he deserved to be criticized for it.

      You weren’t online when he repeated his practice of attacking posters here and erasing his comments when called out on it, and he did not apologize for it, but instead, lashed out at the people who, he had offended. This is why he was not ignored. Those actions should not be ignored.

      John P. Should not have to worry about someone like Flunk camping out on his blogsite antagonizing others and possibly causing members of JPC’s capitalist crew to refrain from logging on because of it. If JPC had been able to monitor the situation, and had not been restricted by the fact that he was traveling at the time, this situation would have been handled differently. Unfortunately, Flunk took advantage of this situation and others responded.

      I hope this helps you understand the situation a little better. Your presence here is appreciated very much and you add much to the discussions – thank you for contributing!

      • Cece

        Guest, Thank you so much for taking the time to explain all that. Wow – what a trip. He must be bored and have an evil streak I suppose. Well I apologize for saying anything without knowing what was really going on.
        I SURE liked seeing the pictures of M&Ms caper! I’ll just stick to the topic myself 🙂
        Thanks again for your explanation…I didn’t know it could even get that weird!

        • Guest

          There a lot of truth to what stillgrace (Guest) said, Cece.
          Flunk said some vulgar and inappropriate things. For what it’s worth, he also apologized more than once.
          He had a hard time on the bunker. He seemed to be saying he got something out Scientology. Then he’d say he was only explaining how he got hooked.
          And I think stillgrace is exaggerated a bit when she says he’d curse and go back and delete. He sometimed edits and re-edits his posts, but I never saw him change the meaning of what he was saying. And the nasty comments are still there, in all there vulgar glory.
          I agree that there’s not much he said here on this blog that couldn’t have been easily ignored. And I believe that his serious comments are sincere.
          I say we just forget about this guy and hope he finds his way.

          DT

          • Eclipse-girl

            The actual dialogue is not there because FLUNK would go back and edit out the vitriol.

          • Guest

            This is a reply to Flunk, who logged on as “Dan Tobaccus” after he was banned and now appears as “Guest””

            Flunk,

            I am not StillGrace, nor am I either of the other two people mentioned in my post whom you have harassed and are continuing to harass here on this forum.

            Please stop. You’re causing far more harm than you seem to recognize with your behavior and the people whom you continue to harass don’t deserve to be treated this way. We can all see that except you, and it’s time that you get the help you need to work on your issues of anger as well as your desire to “get back” at those whom you feel, for some reason, have invalidated or emasculated you.

            You don’t seem to realize that your comments today show your inability to see things the way that they actually are and further prove the need for you to step back and extricate yourself from this very uncomfortable and unnecessary situation.

            The signs of your personality disorder are in full view of everyone here and nothing will be resolved by you leaving comments here or on Tony’s blog. Any further attempt to post here or on the Underground Bunker will only demonstrate your inability to control yourself, and your failure to control your compulsive thoughts and actions, which is not a healthy way to live, nor is it fair to others whom you attack.

            It’s easy to choose not to log on to a few blog sites. Simply choose to act accordingly. Don’t give in to the impulse to read these comment forums. There’s no reason for you to put yourself in a situation which you can’t control.

            Please see a qualified psychiatrist who specializes in personality disorders who can work with you by determining the best therapy program for your condition and can also see if there is a medication that will benefit your obsessive-compulsive behavior and anger problems..

            You’ve effectively alienated yourself to all who have witnessed your breakdown here and at Tony’s site. Is it worth it to keep exposing the effects of your mental illness on the internet? I don’t think so.

            Log off, stay off and get the help you need and deserve. Care enough about yourself to get the professional help you desperately need. You’ll be grateful once you get this under control and will wish you had done so years ago.

            Good luck and best wishes in getting back in control of your happiness with the help that’s available – just do it already!

      • Cece

        And also my apologizes to Chocolate Velvet, Grace, Sugarplumb Fairy for sticking up for him when I didn’t know….

        • tetloj

          Thank goodness for people who are prepared to stand up for others. But yes, this one comes with history.

      • Eclipse-girl

        TY for this post.

      • FromPolandWithLove

        I would like also thank You for great explanation of this … CrapFlunk situation. I remember when Tony O have banned flunk, and a was suprised when I saw his comment here. Luckily it was brief reapperance 🙂

      • Interested

        Thank you for explaining. I did not realise flunk and ziontologist were one and the same, all I recall was being horrified by ziontologist s remarks.

  • Sidney18511

    Oh my…I just popped in here to catch up on JP’s blog and was surprised at the amount of comments. Then I started reading. Flunk came here and made his usual mess on JP’s new blog. Just crapped all over the place like an untrainable dog. He is the reason we can’t have nice things.

    Ignore him.

    • Kitz

      *Snerk* “He is the reason we can’t have nice things” is EXACTLY what I was thinking as I read this thread last night, lol.

      There is nothing wrong with ‘attacking’ statements made by questioning and providing evidence for or against a statement. That is how good discussions work with good information being exchanged to the benefit of all participants involved. The problems start when someone decides that attacking the person making the statement is the proper way to get their point across. Usually I see this when they’ve figured out that they were wrong to start with, but can’t or won’t admit to themselves or others that they were incorrect so the personal attacks begin.

  • John P.

    I just got home from a long weekend visiting the parental waterfront estate and saw the warfare that erupted here. I want to encourage freedom of speech. I listen respectfully to dissenting opinions and am willing to be convinced on almost anything when it is a research-based conclusion. People have, until now, been uniformly polite and respectful with each other in discussing disagreeing views, and we should take pride in that.

    But there is a limit to my passion for encouraging speech when I look at what I consider to be completely preventable wreckage that was created here in such a short time. I’ve been on line for three weeks with nary a questionable comment out of almost 1,000 comments to date. Yet one person was able to come in and almost immediately to ignite a firestorm of ill feeling that is no better than the attacks one sees on political blogs or similar forums. Given this person’s history on Tony Ortega’s blog, I am not willing to be an enabler to such behavior.

    I have thus, less than 15 minutes after coming home following a lovely vacation, taken the action of banning Flunk from this site. Contrary to my usual practice of listening patiently and respectfully to multiple sides of a story to ensure I’m making the best possible decision, I am making this decision quickly. I am not interested in who is right about whatever Flunk was accusing people of having done on Tony’s blog. I am interested in preventing the rancor that Flunk was able to generate in short order.

    In other words, in this case, dealing with the catalyst for this avalanche of “entheta” is more important than trying to figure out who’s right, which I believe I would take the time to do in the case of legitimate differences of opinion. In this case, I’m not willing to invest the time to do that, especially since I don’t think there’s a legitimate controversy; it seems to me this is a situation where Flunk is acting out whatever behavior pattern he has done in the past of saying something, being wounded by the disagreement, and erupting in a rage and lashing out at those who have disagreed with him in vicious and inappropriate ad hominem attacks. In other words, this is just more of the same. No good came of enabling this before, and I doubt anything will change if I permit this going forward.

    I note that I am not merely banning Flunk from the alias used here. I will also ban other known aliases, should they appear. Unfortunately, Disqus only gives me a way to ban users once they post. I could go to fully moderated posts to require me to approve posts before they appear, but this is an insult to the overwhelming majority of commenters here who deserve to be trusted. Hell, even OSA bots play fair to a certain degree in terms of ad hominem attacks, re-writing comments to hide the trail of nastiness expressed via e-mail, etc.

    I also understand some of the mechanics of tracing bad behavior through the internet. Should more weirdness erupt, I will be implementing some tools and using techniques I know of that will allow me to trace posts when an author has made attempts to hide identifying information with a little more sophistication than just changing sock puppet identities. I won’t say too much about that to avoid enabling someone to figure out how to defeat them. I can’t guarantee that Flunk or anyone else I may ban in the future will be able to make an appearance, but I will work to make any such reappearance mercifully brief.

    Lastly, I’d like to remind everyone that the best way to deal with trolls, whether it be someone toxic like Flunk or someone merely irritating like Marcotai, is to ignore them. Don’t give in to the normal human temptation to respond, even if they do something that hurts you deeply. And if you do respond, often the best way to do that is to react with dispassionate logic and reason. And to respond exactly once and move on. For example, I had someone on WWP tee off on me a few days ago with a loud condemnation of capitalists in general. After I got done laughing I buried him with a fairly brutal screed here. https://whyweprotest.net/community/bookmarks/?post_id=2389651. He hasn’t had the courage to reply and get into a flame war with me, though he has done that with many others on that site. That won’t always work, but in this case, it did, as I expected.

    I now have to get ready and leave for another social engagement. I apologize if this post, written in haste, rambles, repeats itself or doesn’t make sense. But I just wanted to take action as fast as possible once I discovered what happened and let you know the outline of my thought processes. I am sorry this happened when I was completely tied up and unable to respond more quickly.

    I will be back in time to have a Daily Digest up later tonight. Please tune in again then!

    Thanks,

    –your hardworking host

    • Guest

      Thank you, JP, and welcome back! 😉

    • Sandy

      Thank you, Sir.

    • Eivol Ekdal

      Thanks for working hard, Host. Welcome Back. I trust you are well stuffed and hope you scored a doggy bag of turkey for sandwiches later.

    • Eclipse-girl

      Welcome back. I hope your time at the parental estate was relaxing and full of love.

    • Lurkness

      Welcome home and sorry we left a mess.

      • Free Minds, Free Hearts

        What Lurk said.

    • Robert Eckert

      Really, all you needed to say was “Nix Flunk”

      • FromPolandWithLove

        Nix FLAPunk

    • Casabeca

      Thanks for all you do John P, you are an excellent host :).

    • sugarplumfairy

      I deliberately avoided commenting here yesterday because I know sometimes I’m a hot button to Flunk.. I completely understand and support your reasoning behind removing the catalyst.. And I just want to say something once..

      I’m not really sure where Flunk is coming from.. Maybe he is what he says he is.. An ex who’s been out for 30 years and believes that co$ is wrong but some of lrh’s tech is beneficial.. And maybe he’s only here because he’s been tasked with derailing our criticism of co$..

      Either way, I am almost 100% certain that Flunk is a victim of co$.. He doesn’t see himself as co$’s victim, but it’s pretty blatant he’s a product of co$ tech.. His slurs are typical bull baiting attacks.. He’s been drilled and TR’d into the spiny porcupine he’s become.. I believe that as a young man, he spent long, repetitive hours under the strict supervision of probably more than few co$ bullies.. and they taught him well..

      You give good advice, John P.. Ignoring Flunk is the kindest way to deal with him..

      • Sandy

        sugarplumfairy. You are very generous in your dealings with this person. He has not been as generous towards you. That proves you are the better person. Blessings.

        • sugarplumfairy

          I’m just the luckier person.. I avoided being captured and detained by co$.. Blessings back, Sandy..

          • Sandy

            Oh my. You are so kind. He has been so angry & mean – and yet you speak to him in a respectful way. All due respect.

          • sugarplumfairy

            You’re right.. I’m freaking awesome.. I think imma rename myself Saint Sugarplumfairy..

            =)

            ok, gotta go.. back to my poker game and my Apocolypse Now (tequila, vermouth and Bailey’s.. oh, my..)

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Tequila, vermouth and baileys?
            You are going back to that combo voluntarily?

            You are a Saint…..or nuts 😉

          • sugarplumfairy

            It’s not for the faint of heart..

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Send me a review.
            I think I will skip that one.
            LOL.

          • Sandy

            Well, you could of responded a little more kindly… But. whatever …

          • sugarplumfairy

            Now you’re speaking my language! I’m much more comfy with criticism than I am with praise..

            Sorry if I offended.. I appreciated your kind thoughts..

          • ThetaBara

            You know what’s really good with bailey’s? Fresh powder snowfall. Seriously, it’s like the best sno-cone EVAR. 😉 Nice to see you and I totally agree with your stance here. It’s important to remember that the trolls and OSA folks are wounded and under pressure, and being gentle is the best way. I don’t always manage to live up to it, but you are right that we should at least aspire to that.

          • KJP in Portland

            If we get any snowfall this year, I’ll try that, since I love Bailey’s. If no snow, I guess we’re only 45-50 minutes from Timberline Lodge; about the same as staying on the Bayshore from The City to San Jose (on a Sunday, haha). Pretty close. I can take a small bottle up there and play in the snow!

            Or, go to the big, public sliding hill at Government Camp, on the main highway. Rent an intertube (it’s as fun as skiing, to me), go way up top and hang on like mad for the whole 1,100 ft. run…bounce…bouce…bounce. Bailey’s and snow.

            Every couple years or so, I get a bottle and it goes in my coffee (Fr. roast) for a few mornings (woo-hoo!)

            …and that’s the stronger of anything I touch anymore. I was all “dranked out” by my mid-20’s.

          • ThetaBara

            It has to be fresh powder or it’s just not as good. If no fresh snowfall, coffee is second best. 😉

          • KJP in Portland

            It will be fresh powder! But the Cascades are having a “little problem”…hardly any snow yet. Normally by mid-November. it’s already snowed 2 feet.

            I’ve got my eyes on the Bailey’s and coffee for now 🙂

          • sugarplumfairy

            Wow.. Good idea!

          • shasha40

            Freaking Awesome you are , SSPF !!!

          • tetloj

            You’re a good woman and an even better fairy xxx

          • KJP in Portland

            He was the biggest stinker I ever saw since I came aboard your World.

          • sugarplumfairy

            He had his moments..

      • Guest

        Flunk said some nasty and inappropriate things to you.

        But he also apologized, didn’t he?

        When he described his favorite auditing sessions as an explanation for how he got hooked into Scientology, you went ad hominem. That means attacking him personally. You ridiculed him relentlessly, even after he politely asked you to stop.

        What if this guy was just an honest guy telling the truth, SPF?

        • Eclipse-girl

          when a person write or states ” I am sorry , but….”

          It is not an apology. FLUNK never apologized.

        • sugarplumfairy

          =)

          • Guest

            Well played, spf! You are so smahhht!

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            YES, IT WAS!

          • sugarplumfairy

            If it weren’t illegal, I’d be seriously in love with this young man..

      • Eclipse-girl

        You are a smart intelligent woman.

        • sugarplumfairy

          I’d up vote that, but I like to appear humble..

          • Eclipse-girl

            I had written something to warn you about DT, now Guest. Then I realized it wasn’t needed.

            I never upvote MY own comments. That would be cheating.

        • Guest

          Amen to that!

      • Guest

        Sugah,

        Rats! I would have to have the same avatar as Flunk’s now deleted account!

        You are a very wise fairy and a peach of a gal – so sorry that you and Grace have had to deal once again with the shenanigans of the sock goon.
        Remember, you are both loved very much!

        P.S, Does this avatar make me look fat? 😉

        • Sandy

          My suggestion is to get thee to an avatar ASAP. That’s what our Anonymous did when he discovered there was another poster with the same name.

          • Guest

            Thanks, Sandy!

            You are a sweetheart! 🙂

    • KJP in Portland

      Welcome back, John.

      I’m glad you had a good holiday and it’s great to see our Mod back.

      Thank you for banning FLUNK101. He has done nasty crap to old-time females here since the VV days. You don’t need to second-guess yourself on this one. FLUNK, aka “Ziontologist” was the FIRST person Tony ever banned from the Bunker (and THAT says something right there).

      Wee, back to getting the misteltoe hung!

      Thanks John!

      KJP

    • wondering

      Thank you! Now our site can go back to being a bastion of rationality in the sea of controversy that is Scientology.

    • Truthiwant

      Cool.

    • chukicita

      I apologize for feeding the troll. There was something about his posts that reminded me of patterns of behavior of some posters on a.r.s. years and years ago – underneath the passive-aggressive veneer. They intended to divert discussion and create fodder for those “religious bigot” and “whoissoandso” sites.

      • sugarplumfairy

        Courtesy of Michael Leonard Tilse:
        “Us doddering old guard, like Tory and Arnie and Gerry and others remember the wild an wooly days of dodge city, otherwise know as alt.religion.scientology. Fondly referred to as a.r.s.
        ‘ole Bill, who worked for the OSA team would create multitudes of fake identities, provide them with believable back stories, even provide plausible sounding personal experiences to build trust and create ‘personal connection’.
        Ole Bill was a gunslinger and a quick change artist who could talk to 10 different threads and other posters all at the same time using these different identities, logins and internet accounts set up in different cities under different names.
        A lot of time was invested in figuring out just who people were, what their back stories were and what they had as ‘buttons’ that could be triggered.
        Once it was figured out, a firefight would occur, starting between the sock puppets, (the synthetic identities), designed to trigger various people to choose sides and attack others, create offline cliques of posters who talked behind the back of other posters and eventually get every one accusing everyone being an OSA troll or agent or whatever.
        The end result was trust went out the window, no one wanted to hang out and share any more, no one wants to play in a cesspool. It ended a.r.s. as a community and left it as a bunch of wounded wary-eyed veterans.
        My read is that the current incarnation of the Bill Yaude program has finally reached critical mass where they think they can ruin the Bunker. It’s too effective. Too many connections are made, too many stories are shared for scientology to allow it to exist.”

        • chukicita

          Thanks for posting that. I remember those days – and even before, when Elaine Siegel came up with that infamous plan to run the ‘entheta’ off the intertubes by ‘outcreating’. She thought 30 or 40 Good News posts a day would be enough and it would be “quite simple.”
          There were many strategies OSA came up with to impede communication and drown out free speech.

          I also remember the strategy where posts to a.r.s. would be cancelled (the Cancelbunny), which was countered by the Lazarus program. There was also a time when many, many posts made of gibberish that looked like they came from regular a.r.s. posters were thrown in to dilute discourse. They were so afraid of it.

        • Anonymous

          This post does in fact describe classic tactics from OSA and their public volunteers.

          These people are trained to do this.

          Scientology cannot withstand open public inspection and discussion. That is why the written policy and upper management of Scientology tries to prevent their own members from freely their discussing their actual experience with Scientology. It is also why they attempt to suppress / harass free discussion of Scientology by non-members or ex-members on public forums.

          Authoritarian / totalitarian organizations, whether they be political, religious, commercial or social, attempt to misdirect others with facades of phony PR causes and high-sounding nostrums. They do this to keep others from understanding their true motives and activities, which are invariably self-serving and for the benefit of a very few at the top.

          Sadly, one of the tools of organizational misdirection is to employ useful idiots to do some of the grunt work. These people are to be pitied, rather than hated, as in many cases they think they are forwarding laudable goals.

          These useful idiots do not even realize that those at the top mock them behind their backs and would throw them under the bus in a nanosecond if need be, to keep their own position safe.

          • DeElizabethan

            So true…

    • Anonymous

      John P,

      You wrote:

      “Lastly, I’d like to remind everyone that the best way to deal with trolls, whether it be someone toxic like Flunk or someone merely
      irritating like Marcotai, is to ignore them.”

      This is absolutely correct.

      It prevents both folks who lack manners, as well as deliberate, trained, sh*t-disturbers from ruining a valuable forum. IMHO.

      • DeElizabethan

        So true. Any attention is food to the troll and s/he thrives on it. So let’s starve the suckers. One person cannot fight with himself.

    • OrangySky

      Thanks, John P. The grownups are home! The grownups are home!

  • Eclipse-girl

    This morning I logged on to see what may have occurred. I was hoping for a wonderful John P update.

    Instead, there was a suspicious person by the name of Dan Tobaccus or Tobaccunus

    The commenter wrote to both SugarPlumFairy and Cece. Those were the only two that I found, the person had a total of 5 comments, and the account was private.

    The posts were suspicious because they were defending FLUNK.

    Now after a period of 18 minutes since a reply I wrote, the commenter has tried to remove their existence and has become Guest.

    EDIT : When John P banned FLUNK, the avatar remained.
    When Dan Tobaccus left, or became guest the avatar changed to the torso of one without an avatar.

    • stillgrace2

      Ooh, the air is so fresh and clean in here!!

      Eclipse-girl, you have a good eye! DT=Guest=Flunk=Ziontologist

      I know this is true because. like SPF, I kept out of the fray, for the same reasons she did. And now he’s accusing me of posting as “Guest”. For the record, I did not post as “Guest” (which can be easily verified), I never lied about anything (I don’t know what he’s referring to?), I never made fun of his “wins”, although I will admit I did tire of him spontaneously accusing people of that. I DID tease him with cat memes, after he would attack someone (almost always a woman- such a coward). I hardly ever interacted with him except for posting cat memes when he went off the rails.

      I like the word JohnP used: “toxic”. I like the words Tony used “despicable human being who doesn’t deserve to share this space.”

      And I remember the words I used: I stamped “Grave Reservations” on his file years ago. I take no pleasure in being right about this. I hope he gets the help he needs.

      • KJP in Portland

        I’ll NEVER forget what he said to you. He should be banned from Disqus altogether. I’m still pissed that ‘Ziontologist’ even had the gall to say those inexcusable things to you!

        (((hugs)))

      • stillgrace2

        Third time’s a charm, buddy-boy! Heh heh.

        • stillgrace2

          ooh, I’m shattered and confronted: a down arrow! Well, back to the Bunker. Good luck with your quest.

      • Guest

        No , you DID make fun of his ‘wins’. I saw it many times.

        And if you really thought he was mentally unstable, why would you make cat memes insulting and degrading him and then telling him to to take his meds?

        I guess you know from ‘toxic’, and ‘despicable’.

        One thing is for sure – you are NOT honest, Grace, and you being a bit malicious.

        I hope you’re happy you got him banned.

        • stillgrace2

          “him”? heh heh

        • Sandy

          He’s ba-a-a-a-ack

          He posted under the “Dan Tobaccus” name – even though now it reads “Guest”

          • stillgrace2

            I’m going to let JohnP handle this. See ya back in the Bunker, touchdown 49’s, yes!

          • Sandy

            Really super sloppy Vikings/Bears game. What a mess. To the Bunker it is…

        • Guest

          Did you mean to confront me? I’m not StillGrace.

          I am indeed happy you were banned – I jumped for joy and clicked my heels together! (I’m a good jumper.) I don’t understand why you have re-posted under a new persona – by doing so, you’ve only succeeded to prove everything that I said.

          P..S. Log off here (and stay away) and research qualified mental health specialists in your area to set up an appointment to get help to learn to control your impulses.and to refrain from harassing women when you are angry or upset. Your self help books aren’t helping – you need professional help,

      • Guest

        I can also verify that we are not the same person!

        I’m sorry that he mistook me for you – it’s painful to see that he holds so much ill will toward you and SPF – neither of you deserve to be treated this way and I sincerely hope that Flunk can finally get the psychiatric help which he so desperately needs.

        You, Chocolate Velvet and Sugarplumb Fairy have the respect and love from many people here and at Tony’s site and you can be sure that everyone will be on their guard to prevent Flunk from continuing his cyber stalking and cruel attacks toward any of you.

        P.S. I love your cat memes!

    • KJP in Portland

      Was that the downvoter that appeared overnight?

      John said he had a way to rat-out these people and their histories (other ID’s?) to keep them off the board.

      (((hugs, smooches)))

      • ozzybud420

        that could’ve been me way earlier. I couldn’t sleep and after I read what FLUNK had actually done I went and downvoted all of the posts here I assumed were his. I may have hit a few that weren’t by mistake. This is the only comment Ive made tho and always as ozzybud420. The way he was acting on here was bad but when I read what he actually said on Tony Os to get banned I just cant even believe ANYONE would stoop so low to attack some1 in that manor. Just disgusted me.
        PS JohnP I love the new blog!

        • Sandy

          No ozzy, “Dan” was that down voting guy – Flunk sneaking back in for one last word.

          He also did a drive by at Tony’s, trying to talk up Missionary Kid. He has since removed his identity from there too.

        • Eclipse-girl

          If you want to check, you can scroll up and down and look at the votes on comments.

          Your up votes will appear in blue, and your down votes will be in red. You can change your votes at any time.

          • ozzybud420

            sweet thanks Eclipse-girl for the color coding info! I knew i could hover on the up arrow and see whose upped it but didn’t notice the blue & red that makes it a lot easier to tell if Ive upvoted something or not! Ive been a long time lurker but only recently started commenting so disqus is still new to me. No I only downvoted Flunks BS posts. 🙂

  • aegerprimo

    • Jon Hendry

      That’s one Dalai Lama quote I’m not crazy about. At the margins it gets into “pulling it in” territory. Being raped, or suffering in a natural disaster, or having a genetically-linked disease, don’t “spring only from yourself”.

      Of course, as with many “quotes” online, it could be that he didn’t actually say it. A cursory Google didn’t turn up anything with a specific source (speech date, interview link, book citation).

      • Eclipse-girl

        I understand what you mean about “pulling it in”

        If the DL did say this quote, I think it meant that you and your attitude are in control of how you look at things.

        I am not near as wise as the DL and everyone can disagree me.

      • ThetaBara

        “The problem with quotes on the Internet is that you can never tell if they are true.” – Abraham Lincoln

  • Bury_The_Nuts

    Ok, I try not to post over here because John wants thoughtful posts with deep insight.
    I don’t usually have that, so I just come here to read and head back to the bunker with whatever I glean from here.

    I have stayed out of this “Flunk” fray as it has been particularly disturbing and hurtful for me to watch, but I have something to say to Flunk.

    Especially after seeing this latest ridiculousness under yet a new (and now deleted) sock.

    Dear Flunk, Ziontologist, Class 6 Survivor, Thunderhorse, StillKeyedOut, Dan Tobaccus…yada, yada, yada.

    No one here or at the Bunker attacked you personally unless it was to defend themselves or others from you. They may have a difference of opinion about your subjective views on those wins you talked about. It was you who would go ad hom and then blame the other poster.
    You also had people who befriended you and tried their very best to be sympathetic and understanding. In fact several people tried to have meaningful dialog with you and try to understand your position, but you were so bound up in hate and spite to go after a phantom perceived enemy that you treated those people as if they were non existent.

    SPF doesn’t always agree with you but “aaaaggggghhhh” was never a reason to call her all of the horrible things that you did,…repeatedly.
    Sorry doesn’t cut it when you turn around and do it again and again and again.
    StillGrace was very direct with her “Grave Reservations” about you and well, It sadly turned out she was spot on.
    And the Chocolate Velvet thing………well. It spoke for itself.
    John P., Spackle/Deckard, PI, Oh shit……no need to go into the long list of names you have had ongoing conflicts with, is there?
    As someone said below………there is one common denominator. YOU.

    I know there is a lot of good in you. I know how intelligent and funny you can be.
    I have gained great insight and knowledge from some of our conversations.
    Of course, I have also been called stupid and pathetic when you decided to go on one of your rages.

    I hope you “find your way”…as you so eloquently put it.
    But you need to leave us all alone now.

    Now….Listen to me very carefully…….VERY CAREFULLY!!!

    If you do not stop this……….I will do something that I swore to you I would never do.

    I do not take promises lightly so this is very painful for me to have to say this to you.

    But you need to understand something right now………..This is NOT a threat.

    You will cease and desist with this bullshit, or I dox you to John P. and Tony O.
    I am done watching you try to tear apart a community because of your own ultra sensitive imagined slights.
    This place is not about YOU or your mental health.

    As Espiando said, you wished you were our asshole……..and you could have been, and for a while you even were.
    Many of us tried really hard to make the community work with you as a part of it.
    I even threw myself on the sword for you a couple of times when I knew I shouldn’t have.
    But you stepped so far over the line and then you burned the bridge behind you.

    YOU ARE DONE.
    I hope you understand.

    It is now 6:33 PM on Sunday 12/1/13.

    • DeElizabethan

      Whoa Bury, this should really reach him, thank you. Should he ignore this then all I can say is that he wants to be doxed.

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Well I feel like shit.
        But like I said. I am done.

        • Guest

          That’s why it’s called “”Tough Love”.

          Let Nick Lowe help.

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            😉

          • Eclipse-girl

            NIce choice

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            Hey, isn’t that June Carter’s kid?

          • Guest

            Yep. They’re no longer married. Nick now looks like a cross between Phil Donohue and the old guy in the movie “Up”. 😉

          • Bury_The_Nuts

            OMG, I had to google his image. That is hilarious!
            I mean he looks great, in a very strange old dude way.

          • Eclipse-girl

            I am a big fan of his music from the 70’s and 80’s.
            He produced the first few Elvis Costello albums.

          • Eclipse-girl

            Yes, that is Roxanne Carter

            Nick and Roxanne were married for about 10 yrs (guessing 1990 – 2000)

            He help raise Roxanne’s daughter Tiffany, who is also a singer songwriter , Tiffany Anastasia Lowe

          • Jon Hendry

            (stage whisper) Carlene Carter (ahem)

          • Eclipse-girl

            damn, I am wrong. I have albums from both. IIRC, Johnny had two daughter from is first marriage and June had one daughter.

            I am right about Tiffany Anastasia being born of a different father, but choose the Lowe name because Nick was involved in raising her.

        • Eivol Ekdal

          Well said Lilith.

        • DeElizabethan

          Don’t you feel like sh*t either. He would love that and thrives on shit too!

        • Eclipse-girl

          You gave this person plenty of warning.
          The person kept testing you.

          It is tough love.

          You have done nothing wrong.

          (((HUGS)))

        • Sandy

          Oh, Bury. Never has anyone tried so hard. We all watched you do it.

        • tetloj

          Your support and championing of ‘misfits’ doesn’t go unnoticed. You _are_ awesome.

    • Eclipse-girl

      (((HUGS)))

    • And I don’t rent cars!

      BTN, “Thank you!”

      You wrote, “Ok, I try not to post over here because John wants thoughtful posts with deep insight. I don’t usually have that, so I just come here to read and head back to the bunker with whatever I glean from here.”

      Well “Beloved Bury”, you “have THAT” in abundance and you also have written to Flunk/Guest with abundant grace, dignity and respect!

      “Congratulations” on writing a very eloquent post on our behalf (for us folks from the Bunker and John P’s blog AND on the behalf of both our Proprietors)! You have expressed people’s outrage, anger, hurt, frustrations, etc. in a very thoughtful, insightful, and humane style. You even managed to describe your own and other people’s attempts to befriend “Flunk/Guest” even when “Guest” had hurt them so very painfully and while knowing Flunk/Guest had huge mental and behavioral issues of some sort.

      Not only did you write, “I have stayed out of this … fray as it has been particularly disturbing and hurtful for me to watch, but I have something to say to Flunk” but you followed it with this promise in which you state, “If you do not stop this……….I will do something that I swore to you I would never do. I do not take promises lightly so this is very painful for me to have to say this to you. …This is NOT a threat. You will cease and desist with this bullshit, or I dox you to John P. and Tony O.”

      Bury, I suspect you have just made John P and Tony O very proud to have you as one of their “bloggees.”

      I know I am proud to know you as a fellow Bunker and John P “bloggee” and grateful for your post.

      Palm to palm and with deep respect,

      Cars

      • Bury_The_Nuts

        Thx Cars 😉

    • John P.

      To be perfectly clear: Everyone is welcome to post here. I don’t want you or anyone else to be afraid or too intimidated to post. My sole request is that whatever you do post, you bring your “A” game. I like watching college basketball far more than watching the pro’s because college kids bring their “A” game far more often than the pro’s do; the superstars often seem to be sleepwalking through the first 40 minutes of each game just so they can prolong their longevity.

      Whether it’s serious, scholarly or funny, all I ask is that you (in the generic sense) spend the extra minute or two making even a brief comment be the best you can do. This is not designed to be a “heavy” or serious place. Just one where people can amaze each other a great percentage of the time by what they can share.

      A great example: MidwestMom chose to turn a couple of bad puns to do with the IAS tent into an entire freaking interview, one of the funniest things I had read in a long time, and something that I was proud to feature on this blog. That’s an extreme case; I don’t want to suggest that only comments that run to three or four pages of highly polished prose are worth reading. I just think that learning the reflex to see just how cool you can make each comment will result in some pretty amazing stuff and will build a really unique community.

      I have meant to write a post to try to codify this as the “three minute rule:”

      1) If you are posting something that you spent less than three minutes writing, is it really your best work? In other words, if you spend 10 seconds writing something, is that worth 10 seconds of the life of each of the 1,000+ readers who will read it (I’m up over 1,000 unique readers per day these days, after only three weeks, which is pretty exciting). If you’re tempted to just write, “I agree” or “My vote for comment of the day,” the three minute suggests that you write something about why exactly that deserves to be the funniest thing you read (or you could try and say something even funnier), something that reveals a facet of who you are. One of the problems of the Bunker that led me to create the Daily Digest idea was to cut through the 10-second posts in search of stuff that really showed people doing their best, which is what we all loved about the Bunker in the original days.

      2) If you post something longer, will it benefit from three extra minutes reading it over to tighten up the wording, eliminate redundancy, and just polish it a little bit more? I always re-read stuff I write, even a simple e-mail, and have learned the art of pretending I’ve never seen it before when I’m editing my own stuff, so I don’t get emotionally attached to my own words. I know everything I write can be improved. I know that people appreciate the polish that last three minutes adds to my posts… I often catch a lot of typos and repetitive junk when taking the extra time to re-read a longer post before I press “Post.”

      People will know when you bring your “A” game and will appreciate you for it. I am far from the most frequent poster on the Bunker — there are plenty of people who click “Post” several times as often as I do. And there is one person who has more total “likes” than I do. But nobody has a higher average number of “likes” per post than I do. It’s not due to the length of my posts – yes I am more long-winded than most; some of my shortest posts have had among the most “likes” of anything I have written. I think people recognize I try really hard to entertain and/or educate. And that is due mainly to the three minute rule.

    • ThetaBara

      I have been thinking that someone ought to dox him if he keeps it up. But hopefully he will just go away. Well said, Bury.

  • Sandy

    I would like to comment to JP.

    Thanks for leaving this up & letting us post our frustrations. A lot of us got a lot of feelings out. The Asshat made us mad, but we all held it in.